In an ironic twist, a number of Chinese bloggers have begun calling for Kurdish independence from Turkey — a riposte to increasingly vocal Turkish support for Uyghurs in Xinjiang. Appearing on Junshi.cn ["MilitaryAffairs.cn"] — a popular online military and national security discussion forum — this emerging theme comes on the heals of statements by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey, who described the treatment of Chinese Uyghurs as “genocide.”
Not renowned for supporting independence movements in the main, the Junshi.cn blogger community has taken to classic freedom fighter rhetoric following a chain of three recent events: unrest in Xinjiang, the response from Turkey, and recent statements in the United States Congress deeming the death of 1.5 million Armenians in Turkey (then the Ottoman Empire) from 1915-1923 as “genocide.” Chinese bloggers have taken up the US endorsed label and run with it. How, many bloggers have asked, can Turkey accuse China of genocide, when America has accused Turkey of the same? More to the point, many have taken issue with Turkey’s criticism, given the status of Kurds in present day Turkey. (To be clear, these are positions taken by bloggers. These are not meant to be read as the views of this author.)
One article in particular appears to have stoked the flames. The piece, which details US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s July 10 remarks in which she called the Armenian killings a “genocide,” gave bloggers just the ammunition needed to return PM Erdogan’s verbal fire. Here are some noteworthy (e.g., not laced with profanity, as was often the case) comments:
支持美国对土耳其奥斯曼帝国时期造成150万亚美尼亚人死亡的事件定性为“种族屠杀”。 [Support America's definition of the Ottoman Turk Empire bringing about the death of 1.5 million Armenians as "genocide."]
惨无人道的大屠杀，土耳其你们真是残忍，你们以前屠杀亚美利亚人，现在屠杀库尔德人，你们应该从地球上消失，中国人支持库尔德人建立自己的国家 [Inhumane massacre. Turkey, you are truly cruel. Now, the Kurds are the ones being massacred. You should be wiped off the planet. China supports the creation of an independent Kurdish country.]
So, it looks like we have a winner in the annual “What Country do Chinese Bloggers Hate Most?” competition. 2009 winner: Turkey! France, here’s hoping you enjoyed the honor while it lasted.
UPDATE: Looks like Chinese hackers hit the website for Turkey’s Embassy. (CLICK HERE — in Chinese)
Comments 34
There are no Kurds massacred in Turkey. And with regard to Armenians you make a mistake too: Armenians had alway have their own territory. Those Chinese bloggers are trying to turn things ad absurdum. East-Turkistan is the Uyghur`s country. Those bloggers are trying to make a minority out of them. They are trying to falsify facts and history.
Posted 15 Jul 2009 at 7:33 pm ¶Just to be clear, I am reporting what is being said by Chinese bloggers. I am not stating my own views re: Turkey.
Posted 15 Jul 2009 at 9:27 pm ¶Outrage is how Chinese people learn about the world.
Posted 15 Jul 2009 at 10:43 pm ¶Yes, cool, thank you for broadcasting! Where are you located, actually?
Posted 15 Jul 2009 at 10:45 pm ¶tut, tut. Agent provocateur, eh?
Posted 15 Jul 2009 at 10:55 pm ¶I really want Turkey into the EU.The problems to integrate the rather not so well doing east of the country could be minimized by splitting the vast territory up and giving lots of the junk to the new states of Kurdistan and Anatolia … which, of course, could throw their lot in with any club but the EU. Turks won’t be too happy … but they know well enough when you haggle for something you must also be prepared to give in a little.
Posted 15 Jul 2009 at 11:23 pm ¶that’s not a “strange twist”, China’s reaction to any criticism is to point out the other guy’s faults and draw attention away from their own
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 1:50 am ¶“So, it looks like we have a winner in the annual “What Country do Chinese Bloggers Hate Most?” competition.”
One article and you know what “Chinese bloggers” hate most now?
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 2:04 am ¶Thank you for your effort to keep a non-biased view.
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 3:40 am ¶No country is great, China and Turkey you should keep a humble attitude and look at your failures. The Uyghurs and Armenians would agree with this I’m sure.
What is the point of these nationalistic forum entries that just blast out rubbish and narrow-minded old thinking?
The Uyghur suffering (past or present) in Xinjiang, China, needs to be investigated by a international panel of experts. Perhaps the U.N. may be instrumental in this endeavor.
To turn human suffering into political propaganda helps neither China nor Uygurs. If there are genuine injustices, human rights violations, and suffering, then they should be addressed and redressed, regardless of whether China is offended or not.
Kurds in Turkey are an integral part of Turkey and there have been 6 presidents with Kurdish backgrounds. Can anyone show an Uygur president of China? If Chinese want independence for Kurds who enjoy constitutional rights in Turkey, on humanitarian grounds, then Chinese must be ready for the independence of Xinjiang, Tibet, and hundreds of other regions in today’s Chin, for much more severe human rights violations.
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 4:14 am ¶This is only a natural reaction to the foolish hypocrite turks and their double standard policies.
First the idiot Erdogan went around accusing Israel of being inhumane and now they have the nerve to accuse China.
How dare they say anything against China when Turkey is the biggest committer of genocide?
The Turks taught the Nazis how to genocide by setting an example through the Armenian GENOCIDE.
Then throughout the whole 20th century into the current century they committed cultural genocide against Kurds.
Chinese people have all the right to express their wish for an independent Kurdistan.
Little Turkey should keep its mouth shut otherwise.
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 4:30 am ¶Anaturk stop being hypocritical like your founding fascist father Ataturk. The main reason Turkey has been totally rejected and neglected with humiliation out of the European Union is because of disgraceful human rights issues against the original people of the land the “Kurds” of “Kurdistan”. the Armenians were massacred by the orders of the Ottoman Turks and Turks have blood of Kurds and Armenians on their hand. Turkey is based on a fascist constitution based on racism and fascism and its foreign policy uses double standards.
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 5:08 am ¶You have to hand it to the Chinese Netizens, if the issue was not serious i would be laughing right now.
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 5:39 am ¶Yes I also support an independent Kurdistan. To Anaturk:
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 7:02 am ¶Turkish security forces and paramilitary organisation called JITEM have killed 40.000 Kurds since 1983. Is this not a massacre or what’s about Dersim, Kocgiri massacres? Try to avoid being victim of your biased Turkish nationalistic discourse.
Chinese indeed massacred the Turks … in the battle of Kunari of the Korean war. Brave Turk warriors of the Turkish Brigade simply broke and “ran like hell” to avoid ending like kababs on Chinese bayonets. The lucky survivors get to puff on their mustache and talk about “stubborn resistance” of Turkish brigade. Of course, no one inside Turkey would ever dispute the myth of Turkish brigade, that would be “insulting the Turkishness”
Anaturk, your country is in Altai mountains of Mongolia, why don’t you return there and leave the poor Kurds alone.
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 7:32 am ¶—”If Chinese want independence for Kurds who enjoy constitutional rights in Turkey”—-
Really? What would you say to these links, who are only few ut of the thousands…
1. http://english.rizgari.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=15918
2. http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/Newroz/video/x4vdol_newroz-tragedy-2008-better-version_news
3. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_kmafp/is_200611/ai_n16935462/pg_1
4. http://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~siamakr/Kurdish/KURDICA/1999/JUL/policy.html
5. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,560699,00.html
By the way, check this old facebook group, we can replace the event of Davos to current:
Turkey’s Prime Minister Erdogan’s Hypocrisy!
http://www.facebook.com/vvanwilgenburg?v=feed&story_fbid=103917205874#/group.php?gid=51135462489&ref=ts
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 8:59 am ¶Democracy and human rights have never been mentioned in Turkey when it comes to Kurds; however, Turkey started talking about human rights, cultural rights for minorities when it comes to Uyghurs. An independent Kurdistan is unavoidable.
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 9:17 am ¶It is absolutely shame that my government recognizes other genocides but not the genocides committed by ourselves. How much more of this racism?
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 9:22 am ¶—”If Chinese want independence for Kurds who enjoy constitutional rights in Turkey”—
Really, right? You are either being racist, as a liar, or ignorant. Check these links out, which are only few out of the thousands upon thousands of atrocities Turkey has conducted against the Kurds:
http://english.rizgari.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=15918
2. http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/Newroz/video/x4vdol_newroz-tragedy-2008-better-version_news
3. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_kmafp/is_200611/ai_n16935462/pg_1
4. http://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~siamakr/Kurdish/KURDICA/1999/JUL/policy.html
5. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,560699,00.html
Also, check this old facebook group, although old, but if we replace the Davos event to current, it renews:
Turkey’s Prime Minister Erdogan’s Hypocrisy!
http://www.facebook.com/makreyi?ref=name#/group.php?gid=51135462489&ref=ts
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 9:27 am ¶Very good. The Kurds and Armenians now have a big big superpower to support their causes and I am sure the Greeks would be very happy to have a powerful friend like China to counter the Turkish bully too.
Feel free to train the islamic terrorists from “Eastern Turkistan”. Al-Qaeda’s
training camp was just too primitive. Turkey’s special forces can do a much better job inciting the uprising in East Turkistan.
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 10:37 am ¶sing
Yeah, Mr. Kurdistan, tell me. Tell my German half, please. You know what? My experience with Kurds is so bad that I even cannot bother to argue with you. I honestly tell you as German, who not before the age of 28 started to get to know the roots of her Turkish half. And during this roots-search I crossed some Kurds, of course… I had never had anything against Kurds. But now that I got to know them I do. You would too if I told you why. All of you would agree with me. / One more thing, and then I am leaving this forum: being hated is good, you know, guys. One needs to work hard for being hated.
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 11:44 am ¶Mr. Kurdistan, Ataturk was of Greek origin; my Turkish half is of Asian origin. Uyghurs and I share the same genes. And that is a topic you have nothing to do with. Furthermore, my Turkish half does not want to join the EU, and my German/Italian half is in the EU already. Fascist constitution… shall I reply now that I am the good crossing of Hitler/Mussolini and, sorry, I do not find that Turks are fascists. And in case Mr. Goldberg wants to attack this first half… גם אני מדברת עברית. Anyone else?
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 1:04 pm ¶Dragging up what the Ottoman empire did in the dying days of the First World War is pointless. The Ottoman government no longer exists, and the vast empire it ruled over likewise is no more. It is just as pointless as dragging up the Manchu war on the Dzunggar Mongols of northern Xinjiang in the 19th century, which resulted in over a million civilian deaths; that government also no longer exists….
It would be fair to say that all Imperial civilisations have dirty laundry in their closets; empires are not forged by asking politely for subject nations to submit and adjourning to tea and scones. We should focus on the here and now.
Only Turkey and Iran have had the temerity to publically criticise China’s actions. Neither of these countries has a spotless reputation for human rights or treatment of minorities…..but sadly the countries with more enviable human rights records are sitting on their hands.
Neither Turkey nor Iran has called for independence of East Turkestan. Neither country has called for Xinjiang to be a theocracy either. Chinese ultra-nationalists making strident calls for Kurdish separatism are getting worked up over very little. They should grow up.
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 3:04 pm ¶While I’m no defender of moronic Chinese bloggers, the Uighurs are not the innocent natives of Xinjiang that they portray themselves.
Uighur claims that they were somehow the aboriginal people of Xinjiang is a joke. No doubt they are turkish ethnically, so that where they originated. Both they and the Han Chinese have claims to the land historically. From the NY Times:
“Though many Uighurs claim to be the indigenous people of the region, foreign historians say the Uighurs did not migrate from the Mongolian steppes to what is now Xinjiang until the 10th century… As for signs of the Chinese empire, the most prominent Chinese gravesites were discovered at a place called Astana, believed to be a former military garrison. The findings there date from the 3rd to the 10th centuries…”
Posted 16 Jul 2009 at 5:03 pm ¶Turkey must pay for what they have done towards the kurds! Turkey didn’t even recognize our existens until 1990! Turkey has still banned our language!
Which democratic country does ban some minorities languages?
Turkey is THE LAST STATE that should even mention the rights of human being!
Long Live a free and INDEPENDENT KURDISTAN!
Posted 17 Jul 2009 at 12:08 am ¶Turkic people your place is NOT in Kurdistan!
Suleiman It was NOT the dying ottoman empire that did those massacres but the organisation “Young Turks” and its leader Mustafa Kemal Ataturk that murdered the armenians. Dersim Genocide and kocgiri was under the time when Turkey was independent.. Why dont we mention the massacre in Ararat? or that turkey has burned over 4000 villages and deported millions of kurds from their homes while murdering over 40 000 civilian kurds??
Hypocrits is true name for people like you! Dont try to talk about the uighurs in CHINA when you are commiting the genocides!
Posted 17 Jul 2009 at 12:14 am ¶What do you want from me now? Ne istiyorsun? Ah, you wrote “must pay”. Yeah, all people want money, that is the same all over the world… para para para (money money money… // You know, I once got to know a Kurd. I simply did what he asked me for. That is the best way to get to know people. Getting to know their wishes, their longings etc. All he wanted from me was to give him a blow job. He said that he wanted to buy a dog for hugging. So, whenever I meet a Kurd now all I associate with Kurdish is “inhumane”, “nuts”, “dog gets hugged and I got to do the blow job”… So, the logic result is that I do not want to have anything to do with Kurdish. // You could hardly survive in Germany, for example, if you did not know any German. Every nation insists on its own language to be the official language. Because every nation wants you to be a work force that supports her monetary system. // Saz caliyor musun? Dinin ne? // Hej, you know what? You and I have nothing to do with each other. I feel neither provoked by you nor do I feel any hatred or love for you. I do not know anything about Ararat etc. The only thing I was told was the renaming of towns by Ataturk. As my Turkish half`s roots are in Anatolia… I am not a fan of Ataturk`s policy besides the fact that he rescued Turkey from entirely vanishing from the map. // And if you made me believe that 40,000 Kurds had been killed, and you then told me that I would have to pay for that… well, what if I simply refused saying I neither have any money, nor do I want to give you a blow-job, nor do I want to be killed? Yeah what then? Then we needed to fight, didn`t we? How tall are you?
Posted 17 Jul 2009 at 10:33 pm ¶Hi “Nationalist”, the Ottoman Empire did not collapse until 1920. The tragic conflict between the Muslim and Christian communities of the Ottoman Empire had its roots well before then, as early as 1915 or before, depending on whose accounts on considers. Kurds were not uninvolved in this tragedy ….and incidentally I am not a Turk, I have nothing against Kurds or anyone else :)
Getting back on topic, even a dysfunctional country with a substandard human rights situation can make valid criticisms of other countries’ conduct that deserve consideration. The Soviet Union’s strident criticism of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians predated that of American liberals by decades….and the Soviets were no angels either.
Posted 21 Jul 2009 at 2:54 pm ¶On the PRC-Turkey imbroglio, the Parisian daily “Le Figaro” reports from a slightly different perspective; an English translation of their 20 July article is available here:
http://adamcathcart.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/xinjiang-in-le-figaro/
I enjoyed your solid post (and the blog itself), particularly Turkey as the new “most-hated country of 2009″ insight. Not to overstate the power of the state media in the PRC, but I think the level and the tone of anti-Turkish discourse in the blogosphere depends on Xinhua and the “Global Times/环球时报” which acts as a kind of barometer or set of parameters for bloggers in the first place. If Turkey is supporting separatists, then they support terrorists, and anything goes, etc. Unfortunately it will be difficult for bloggers to find giant Turkish business firms in China which they can boycott, target, etc. France was not so lucky.
Posted 25 Jul 2009 at 7:52 pm ¶The real issue is: China is persecuting yet another of its many minorities. What the Japanese did to Manchurians in 1930s, China is now doing to its Uyghur, and Tibetans, and even Taiwanese. Just because China is selling the cheapest goods the world cannot get enough of, doesn’t mean a blank check for China on human rights. The bloogers here are trying to shift the attention of the the world from China’s embarrassment to Turkey’s internal problems. Nice try, but the world will not be fooled. China: shape up or ship out of the civilized world! Don’t forget, we, the Western consumer, made you. And we can also break you…
Posted 01 Aug 2009 at 7:01 am ¶Turkey is stolen land from Armenia, Greece, Kurds, Cypriots, Assyrians etc. The atrocities turks committed are legendary. Sino-Uighar relations can not take away that fact.
Posted 11 Aug 2009 at 9:42 am ¶Anaturk your thinking is super flawed and I am getting sick and tired of racist/nationalist Turks on the internet pretending to be half god knows what and some not even being Turkish and yet supporting the corrupt Turkish policies with corrupted logic.
So it’s not a nation’s fault if you gave one of their members a blowjob and didn’t get cuddled. One could come here and say I once knew a Turkish woman who was a whore…
As for your comment on the language in a country it’s void if the nation state is being built to destroy the indigenous people and cultures and languages.
It’s also amazing how people of Anatolia claim their roots come from asia etc. Well, there was a recent study on genes :) You guys are total muts. Good luck to all your quarters/halves getting alone.
Posted 12 Apr 2010 at 9:05 am ¶I tell you a truth..Truth is that honestly.
The exist of Turks as a nation in this world is a mistake.
There is no Turks in this world. The name of Turks is a cultural identiy like mixed with araps, persian, and Kurds as well.
Chine kicked them out from mongolia many years ago. They came to anatolia. They didt have food a place for go..That time Kurds helped them. Because Kurdish people are stupid. If Kurds didn’t help them that time, now there was no Turks in the world.
Everybody says, “There is Kurdish problem in Turkey..”
But actualy, “Turks are problem in anatolia”
So, they should go back to origin land and become chinese or mongolian.
Another realility is that, there is even no one family lives in Kurdistan but there are many Kurds who lives in Ankara, Baghdat and Tahran.
That means, Kurdistan is Kurdish country, also Kuds are partner of neighboor countries.
I think, Turks should never talk human rights. Becase they are not human even…..
Posted 12 Apr 2010 at 1:20 pm ¶exactly Turkey has kicked out from Korean regions,, and there is no place on the earth could accept turkey as nation ,Turkey did committed genocide against minorities such kurds and armenian people and jewish people and they still carrying out the most dangerous crimes against kurdish people
Posted 09 Jul 2010 at 3:55 am ¶Trackbacks & Pingbacks 1
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